torque inc

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torque inc

Postby brian » Tue May 19, 2009 7:04 pm

I just found out that John Walker owes other people parts and not just me. I fully paid for a set of long tube G-body headers almost a year and a half ago and i have got nothing. I want my money back or some top quality headers really soon. Theft of over $500 is a felony and is looked into very seriously. I have put off saying anything way to long because I wanted to give him lots of time and be nice. I will contact the law.
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Re: torque inc

Postby STDog » Tue May 19, 2009 7:29 pm

Have you contacted MTS?

I would expect MTS took on those commitments in the merger.


For that matter, have you contacted JW recently?

Between his health problem and the merger, perhaps a few projects have been delayed much more than expected?
Last edited by STDog on Tue May 19, 2009 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: torque inc

Postby MTS Marty AKA Nashillac » Wed May 20, 2009 7:30 am

None of the affairs of Torque Inc are part of MTS. What happened was TI closed it's doors and JW wentto work for MTS. We aquired no rights to any monies owed to or by TI. Neither did we aquire the name or rights to the name. We did not buy any TI stock nor did JW get any MTS stock in return.
Any issues envolving TI would need to be addressed directly to TI as it was a corp and JW worked for that corp. Issue is the company has folded and has no assets.
That's about all I've got to add
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Re: torque inc

Postby cadillac512 » Wed May 20, 2009 10:15 am

  Brian-

  Sounds like what happens now is up to the character of the men involved.  :crossfingers:

    Terry
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Re: torque inc

Postby Maddog » Wed May 20, 2009 10:32 am

I think the world of marty and MTS and everyone who can read knows that. But here is whaat the MTS website says and the "press release" regarding the "merger" is reproduced below. Maddog

"

In 2008, Maximum Torque Specialties acquired Cadillac high performance entity Torque Inc, dramatically improving its world-class technical expertise, R&D innovation, and turn key engine programs. "



Press Release said:

9-30-2008 – For Immediate Distribution


Effective October 1st 2008, Cadillac 425/ 472/500 industry leaders Maximum Torque Specialties (MTS) and Torque Inc are pleased to announce the merger of the two successful enterprises into one complete company.  The business will operate and expand its presence in the Cadillac Performance Market under the MTS banner.

John Walker, formally of Torque Inc, will join MTS as the Director of Product Development.  “I would like to thank MTS for giving me the opportunity to guide along the products that need to be introduced to this market and for allowing the positives of Torque Inc to be included.  I invite all of Torque’s customers to take a look at the new company; I think you’ll be very pleased.  The merger should also create an environment where the advances we have been able to make in the past few months continue, and if all goes as planned, are implemented sooner.” 

“With the merger, two of the greatest Caddy 500 / 472 / 425 minds in the world are now under one umbrella,” says Paul Lane, Executive VP for MTS.  “John’s tremendous experience and long-term technical background in the details of these engines gives us a huge advantage in finally exposing the Superiority of the 501 Series Cadillac Engines up to the popularity of lesser performing Ford, Mopar, and Chevy.”

Current MTS President and worldwide Caddy recognized Master Technician, Marty Lane, will expand his role in the now larger endeavor.  “We have several new products that John and I have been working on in the past year,” says Lane. “It became very aware to all involved that the addition of Torque Inc would allow MTS to quicken the pace of the current projects while providing better parts and services to our customers.” 

Walker was instrumental in MTS’ acquisition of Bulldog Performance’s Cadillac division last year, and he will now further lead the MTS branded Aluminum products into viable, easily accessible products for the Caddy community. 

Paul Lane adds, “John has already started working on several other products that we intend to release in the coming months, including the newly developed MTS Single-Plane Manifold.  His recent intervention has assisted me in finishing up the Bulldog acquisition and we can now get those overdue parts back into production.”

MTS’ corporate offices will be continue to be based in Southern California, long considered the Hot Rod capital of the world, while Torque Inc’s Ohio operations near Indy will remain intact and renamed to MTS East.  R&D, CNC Porting Programs, Testing, as well as turn-key engine construction will be the focus of the Ohio facility.

For inquiries on this or other MTS business activities, please contact Paul Lane at (760) 247-2533 or e-mail: Paul@500cid.com.
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Re: torque inc

Postby paultrak » Wed May 20, 2009 2:53 pm

Hey guys, Paul Lane of MTS here.  If you have been to the web site I'm the one (in the old picture) that Marty says is tall and has hair.  In the new site, I'm the one stuffed in a MTS shirt on the last page.  Notice I'm not fixing anything.  :D

It's been my pleasure to I have spoken with hundreds people who call into MTS but I wanted to officially introduce myself on the site, and this situation looks to be a proper place to do so.  So, first things first ---  Hello to everyone out there in Caddy Land.  And sorry for this being long-winded, but things need to be expalined.  :soapbox:

If you have chatted with me, you probably understand my detailed knowledge of engine building is limited, but I'm an avid promoter of these Caddy motors and a huge fan of the NHRA.  My area of expertise in MTS and as the President of Lane Concepts (our other business) is to help make the enterprises work, bring valued products to the market, and try to promote a good environment for all of our customers.  I'm also the lucky one who has built the web sites and does most of the marketing. 

Most of you know the history of MTS and how/why we became invloved, and why we work so hard and have spent so much to try and fix all of the broken peices of this specialized industry.  And in doing so we have tried to keep things positive, and lableld the word "positive" as important to the whole Caddy community. 

Second, I'm not here to counter Brian or bash him, he did have a deal with TI, and like the rest of us, is not happy when money is spent with a company and the company goes under before the product arrives.  Businesses die by the hunders every day, it stinks for everyone involved.  I think this topic is important to the whole community and I would like to thank others for the followup posts.  It will help explain.

In 2006 Marty and I purchased the assets of MTS; we didn't purchase the corporation itself, just the inventory, Internet site (500cid) and the customer base and started our Corporate version of MTS.  There were a few "old MTS" customers who had fallen through the cracks during the 2-3 months MTS was is essense closed, and we took care of them.  We honored a warranty or two or three, shipped missing parts etc, though we didn't need to do any of it.  Some things came to furition more than a year after we became involved, and we fixed most if not all of the problems.  It's good business.  Business being the key word.  This is a corporation, not a persoanl endeavor, though I have to admit, our souls are poured into everything we do for the company.  Bulldog (Dick Bradshaw) and TI (J/W) follow(ed) the same suit. 

In Bulldog, we purchased the various tooling, not the company.  We could have just bought the stuff, started the production process and told those who had given Bulldog money for Heads or Manifolds that were never delivered, "Too bad, take it up with Bulldog."  However, we spent more than 70 extra hours (some of it paid legal stuff) to negotiate into the deal that everyone Bulldog owed product, recieved it first.  It's why we had some delays in releasing the (MTS) original items.  It was the right thing to do.  Some things take time, and longer than expected, but our (MTS) core beliefs eventually help everything work out.

In Torque Inc, there were no assets to buy.  First Tiny left, and when JW got sick, the corporation died.  In all honesty, it owed MTS money and we wrote it off.  The web address was defunct, there was no inventory, the business was closed and done.  However, having worked with JW on a few projects, MTS thought it would be a great benefit to bring John on board in an R&D position and move into the "Cadillac Desinged Project." 

I mentioned the word "Positive" above.  When the press release was submitted it would have been very easy for us to say, "MTS sweeps up the remains of another crippled and dead Cadillac Company....."  But why?  To be 100% accurate, the merger was in name only, not companies.  It's still very important to keep the positive aspects of our community flowing in the right direction.  We have taken over three (3) dead enterprises, MTS, Cadillac Bulldog, and TI and have nurtured these into something that will hopefully make our little world a better place.  At times Marty and I have just looked at each other and said, "No good deed goes unpunished", and this TI issue is one of them. 

When the three of us (Marty, John and I) decided to move forward, we spent more than a week evaluating and deciding how to handle TI customers that may be owed something.  Again, trying to keep things positive and moving forward, we have been working with everyone involved to attempt to do what we can regarding TI, and while we have resolved most of the issues, I have to admit, there are times where we have decided to push TI issues back a notch or two. 

In Brian's case, there have been copius amounts of communication between him and us, both verbal and by e-mail, and I didn't see that information noted in the post.  There will be a time when Brian's headers are done, and as MTS is paying for it (through JW's efforts) it's happening on our schedule.  It's getting close, but ensuring that JW's personal situation's and MTS as a whole is taken care of is our #1 priority and something we just have to appologize for. 

I trust this helps explain some of the dynamics involved in how we have been doing business and how things have progressed in the back-end regarding our involvement.  I also hope everyone understands that JW did nothing illegal in closing a bankrupt corporation, and in actuallity, by working with former TI customers, has taken a step above and beyond what he needs to do.  It's a big reason why we decided to bring him on board.

Thanks again for the time.  If you have any other questions, please let me know.

-Paul
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Re: torque inc

Postby STDog » Wed May 20, 2009 4:18 pm

Paul,
Thanks for the clarification. BTW, I like the new web site  :thumbup:

I was simply going on the words in the press release, as Charles posted. Merger has a distinct meaning, and while I understand the wish for a positive spin on the situation, it appears to have been the wrong word to use, as it implied something that was not actually the case.

I do applaud MTS and it's efforts to do the "right thing" in regards to customers of other companies. It's an example of why I was so pleased to have you and Marty take over MTS, and a sign of the business sense long needed in the Cadillac parts world. Look back and you'll see I have mentioned having a successful business man first and hot rodder second running things was a good move.
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Re: torque inc

Postby brian » Wed May 20, 2009 6:00 pm

well i am glad to hear from mts that I will get my headers. I really hated to post what I did but I felt it was necessary. I have bought parts from mts before and have never had a problem there. This situation has really caused me alot of stress and I had to take a big leap of trust to send a big cheque to someone in a different country and whom i have never met.
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Re: torque inc

Postby Cadillac CID » Wed May 20, 2009 6:06 pm

Brian, you are completly correct in the way you handle that. Money does'nt grow on trees. and Yes you have waited LONG ENOUGH. But rest knowingly that you will get your headers and they will be very nice indeed.
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Re: torque inc

Postby brian » Wed May 20, 2009 6:33 pm

BTW I would much rather have my money back
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Re: torque inc

Postby brian » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:27 pm

Well here I am again, this is my only bad people experience since going caddy. I paid John Walker $1640 in january of 2008 and I still have got nothing. As you may have guessed I don't need the headers anymore. I want my money back. Everybody seems to have nothing but good to say about MTS so why am I having such a bad experience? Has anybody on this forum been to JW's shop personally and seen if these headers actually exist? I can't seem to get a straight answer from him.  Headers were one of the biggest obstacles for me to building the cadillac so I thought I would "DO IT RIGHT" and get the best. Well look what happened. Good way to get guys involved in the caddy world.
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Re: torque inc

Postby Ted in Olympia » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:17 pm

MTS was not involved at this time but if JW sold it he should step up and do the right thing.  But if Torque Inc was a real Corporation you are out of luck and I don't think JW has any "responsibility" if Torque Inc. filed bankruptcy.

"I also hope everyone understands that JW did nothing illegal in closing a bankrupt corporation"

Was Torque Inc an actual Corporation?  And did he actually go through bankruptcy?  If he did Brian has no recourse and it would be just like buying furniture from a store that went out of business and filed.  But if he did not go through bankruptcy I would think that when MTS purchased the company they also would take on the liability, but what do I know?

If Torque Inc was a sole owner company than I think you still can file a claim against him.  I know for a fact that just because someone calls themselves a "INC" does not always make them a legal corporation.  You have to check with the state of Ohio to make sure of this.

But what do I know, I'm not a lawyer.  My personal business model is that I would never sell something that I do not have ready to sell.  In fact I would not take money unless I have the part off the car, inspected and ready to go.  But I know this is not normal procedure in the business world.  I do think that MTS has this policy because I know that they have never asked me for money for a "future item".

Sorry if I said something that I should not have.

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Re: torque inc

Postby Chevalade™ » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:24 pm

Better question is, why hasn't JW posted here yet? Like c'mon, a custom set of headers for $1640 (paid for), and no response? I would think he is more of a stand up guy than that.

Hope this turns for the better.



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Re: torque inc

Postby JW » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:38 am

  Brian

Is there some reason that you arent telling the whole truth about this matter ?

You were told that the cadillac headers have been finished and you said you did not want them .

  We had agreed that when your set of the cadillac headers sold, in exchange you would recieve a set of BBC headers of equal value .

  There are in fact 2 sets of headers sitting here and there is a customer that has shown interest in a set of headers.

  Until I recieve payment for the headers they are not sold.

  The reason I have not responded is because I dont really look at the board as much as you might think and just because I am signed in does not mean I am here staring at the screen ,this end of MTS is busier than yall might think.
So I didnt see the post.
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Re: torque inc

Postby Ted in Olympia » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:35 pm

Why don't you just send him the Cadillac headers if he wants them or not?  If this is what he purchased at least the transaction can be over and he can re-sell them if he wants.  I think at $1,640 you would have to send him at least 3 sets of very nice Chevy header to be of equal value.

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Re: torque inc

Postby paultrak » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:31 pm

Hola Guys, MTS Paul here to interject a bit and I would like to do a survey on this topic.  We always try to listen, and some feedback on this would be great.  The Caddy community is very tight and everyone typically has good feedback for stuff that happens.

JW filled everyone in on most of the details.  Brian's Headers have been done for some time, but he requested that we keep them in our posession and attempt to sell them on his behalf, and we have.  Was it the best decision to help or would it be better to send out the product and put this behind us. 

Survey question. Which solution would you take if you were MTS?

1.  Send Brian his Cadillac headers.

2.  Continue to follow his request and help try and sell them, so he doesn't have to do it on his own.

Thanks for the input. 

-Paul
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Re: torque inc

Postby Chevalade™ » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:49 pm

I realise that he wants the money back, but the product is made, and ready to go. I would send him what he ordered. Most companies only offer a 50% return policy on special order parts. I would offer him both and let him choose.

Thanks JW for letting us all know whats going on.


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Re: torque inc

Postby Ted in Olympia » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:50 pm

I already put my nose way too deep into this and most likely got Paul and Marty mad at me.  Two people I do not want to get on my bad side because I think they are great guys.  That being said and because you asked;

If I was going to take the stand that TI was a bankrupt corp.  In my mind this would have been a good solution since the deal took place months before TI "merged" with MTS.  This was done by the "President" in the third post and this should have been the end.

If I was going to take full responsibility for the Torque Inc sale I would have refunded his money (but I have an very easy refund policy) as soon as I found out about the deal and no headers were made.  In post number 6 Paul went over the President's head and took responsibiltiy for the headers. 5/20/09 three months ago.  At this time post number 2 goes out the window.

In Brian's case, there have been copius amounts of communication between him and us, both verbal and by e-mail, and I didn't see that information noted in the post.   There will be a time when Brian's headers are done, and as MTS is paying for it (through JW's efforts) it's happening on our schedule.  It's getting close, but ensuring that JW's personal situation's and MTS as a whole is taken care of is our #1 priority and something we just have to appologize for.  

So the deal was that he gets the Cadillac Headers that he paid for and I think that Brian is a very lucky man to get this.  He can then resell them and get back at least some of hiis money.

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Re: torque inc

Postby shiftless » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:07 pm

Chevalade™ wrote:I realise that he wants the money back, but the product is made, and ready to go. I would send him what he ordered. Most companies only offer a 50% return policy on special order parts.


Bullshit, if a company made me wait a year a half for a part and in the mean time I'm no longer even running the motor in question, I'd better get a 100% refund.

I vote for option 3, sending Brian his money back NOW, then y'all figure out how to sell those headers on your own time.  :twocents:
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Re: torque inc

Postby MOCRUZN » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:24 pm

I believe option # 3 above is the right action to take.
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